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[15:57:17]  <matthias> is it time already ?
[15:57:23]  <jrb> almost
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[16:04:23]  <matthias> ok, should we start ?
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[16:05:27]  <owen> Sure
[16:05:53]  <matthias> to continue with last weeks action items, I actually looked at the different proposals for a druid widgets
[16:06:41]  <matthias> but I did not get around to writing a review mail to gtk-devel-list yet. The feedback is in the bug though
[16:06:58]  <matthias> and Carlos said that he want to work on incorporating it
[16:08:03]  <owen> It woudl be good ot write it up for the list, certainly
[16:08:13]  <matthias^ I still want to do that
[16:08:34]  <jrb> hrm. no alex
[16:09:14]  <matthias^ do you know how far along his canvas plans are ?
[16:10:00]  <jrb^ no.  He is only in the exploratory stage.
[16:12:35]  <matthias> owen: Hans pointed out that i probably misnamed the two new c files for the tray icon.
[16:13:04]  <matthias> gtktrayicon.c should probably be gtktrayicon-x11.c, and gtkstatusicon-x11.c should be gtkstatusicon.c
[16:13:42]  <matthias> can you move them on the server ?
[16:15:04]  <owen^ Do you want them copied or just moved
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[16:15:54]  <matthias> moving should be fine
[16:16:32]  <owen^ Done
[16:17:41]  <ebassi> hate to reply one week late, but I know there were questions on the recent files storage, esp. regarding the libxml2 dependency
[16:18:50]  <matthias^ I want to do a thorough review of the recent-files proposal on the gtk-devel-list later this week
[16:19:10]  <matthias> but the general feeling last week was that a libxml dependency is a nono for gtk
[16:19:48]  <ebassi+ okay. as for the dependency, I understand the issue.
[16:20:37]  <owen^ Other than the weird stuff like xincludes of http files, is there any reason we couldn't parse xbel with gmarkup?
[16:20:45]  <ebassi> matthias: since gmarkup is too simple for the xbel format, i was wondering if expat (upon which we depend indirectely) would be okay
[16:20:47]  <owen> (The subsset that people actually include)
[16:20:55]  <owen> the subset that people actually use
[16:21:14]  <owen> ebassi: We dont' depend on expat cross-platform, just on Unix
[16:21:41]  <ebassi^ I know, but gmarkup for user data is a bit too simple
[16:21:50]  <owen^ What in particular?
[16:21:57]  <matthias+ any concrete things that are missing from GMarkup ?
[16:22:38]  <ebassi> owen: namespaces, DTDs in the passthrough section
[16:22:54]  <ebassi> and that it seems a bit too fragile for user data
[16:23:10]  <owen^ I'm not sure what you mean by user data
[16:23:17]  <owen> It's a pretty robust parser
[16:23:19]  <matthias> its not really user data, its only written by tools...
[16:23:48]  <owen> SOmeone could obviously go out of their way to break it, but it does parse a well-deifned xml subset
[16:24:08]  <owen> ebassi: namespaces are a little bit dificult.y DTDs could be skipped pretty easily
[16:24:21]  <ebassi^ I thought the same
[16:24:50]  <owen> does expat handle namespaces?
[16:24:58]  <ebassi^ yes
[16:25:48]  <owen> It might be worth investigating what it would take to add that to gmarkup ... xml namespaces aren't all that complex
[16:26:15]  <owen> I'm really don't want to start depending on expat in more of the stack, and libxml2 is huge
[16:27:11]  <jdahlin> Xinclude?
[16:27:46]  <owen> You could keep API compat with something like g_markup_parse_context_parse_resolve (char *tag, char **namespace, char **element);
[16:27:53]  <matthias> jdahlin: GMarkup doesn't handle files, so that would probably a layer up...
[16:28:06]  <owen+ We are not including a http library in GLib...
[16:28:30]  <matthias> a callback-mechanism might be possible
[16:28:43]  <owen> jdahlin: for local files, xinclude doesn't seem that intimidating, once you have namespaces
[16:29:05]  <owen> Of course, there is a slippery slope here...
[16:29:33]  <matthias> dragged into the interweb of xml standards...
[16:29:36]  <ebassi> owen: also, namespaces would mean that we could add our own meta-data to XBEL, while keeping a shared layer between us, KDE, XFCE and others
[16:29:46]  <jdahlin> I haven't thought about it too much, I just know it would be nice to have an include feature for glade files
[16:30:06]  <jdahlin> could be done in the parser on top of GMarkup of course.
[16:30:26]  <owen> I don't think expat supports xinclude
[16:30:55]  <owen> If xinclude requires strict nesting it isnt' really required either ... you can just do it at the app layer
[16:31:00]  <jrb> jdahlin: what would we include in glade files?
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[16:31:09]  <jdahlin> jrb: other glade files
[16:31:24]  <jrb^ hrm.  sounds mildly dubious.
[16:31:31]  * jrb wonders how gazpacho would show that
[16:32:04]  <owen> OK, I think we're drifting here
[16:32:08]  <matthias> jrb: would templates be done in that way ?
[16:32:18]  <jdahlin+ well it's quite similar to overlays in feature, and menu merging in uimanager could also use it
[16:32:27]  <jdahlin> err, the overlay feature in xul
[16:32:51]  <jrb> matthias: that's not how I was planning on doing templates.  But I'm not actually writing templates, so it's kinda up to the gazpacho guys
[16:33:54]  <jdahlin> can the druid widget be called assistant instead of druid or wizard?
[16:34:10]  <matthias> ok, do we have a volunteer to a) investigate what XML features are essential for reasonable xbel support, but not supported by GMarkup ?
[16:34:30]  <matthias> jdahlin: thats what the existing patches already use
[16:34:34]  <jrb+ that's the plan, afaik
[16:34:43]  <ebassi> matthias: okay, I'll do it
[16:34:57]  <jdahlin> matthias, jrb: good, druid/wizard are pretty bad names
[16:35:44]  <ebassi> matthias: if it works, we could also switch the FIleChooser bookmarks to the same format, and share them across applications and environments
[16:35:47]  <matthias> DV will rotate if he hears we consider doing a partial implementation of xinclude over a partial implementation of namespaces over an xml subset parser...
[16:36:05]  <ebassi^ I know :-)
[16:39:31]  <matthias> yosh: are you around ? I wondered if you had any thought on the tons of warnings we get from the atomic ops
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[16:39:49]  <matthias> yosh: is the right fix to make the arguments volatile ?
[16:48:31]  <matthias> owen: did you put any thought into timeframes for the the printing work ? Will it be best to wait for cairo 1.2 with non-experimental pdf and ps backends ?
[16:50:36]  <owen^ Haven't really put thought into that yet, no. I think the cairo part is the easy part though... the harder part is UI and spooling, and that could start with what is already there in cairo now
[16:51:51]  <jrb^ I randomly put in printing dialog into the hackfest at Boston
[16:52:22]  <jrb> s/randomly/somewhat arbitrarily/ -- it might be a bad idea
[16:52:57]  <owen^ Well, sounds somewhat parallelizable. Though we'd need to get some pre-work done
[16:54:18]  <jrb> yeah.
[16:54:39]  <jrb> owen: seemed a better choice than, say, gnome-app
[16:55:12]  <matthias+ can you outline that pre-work ?
[16:55:28]  <owen^ Well:
[16:55:55]  <owen> - A first stab at the API
[16:56:17]  <owen> - Maybe an initial stupid implementation so that the framework is there so people can take and extend
[16:56:29]  <owen> pieces of it
[16:57:49]  * jrb assumes that requirements are first
[16:57:52]  <jrb> oh wait, I'm wrong
[16:57:54]  <jrb> we need a webpage first (=
[16:58:06]  <owen> To do the first stab at the API, you need to do some thinking about use cases and API review, of course
[16:58:24]  <owen> jrb: A logo!
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[16:59:29]  <federico> brilliant - did I miss the meeting?
[16:59:45]  <jrb^ it's slowing down a bit
[17:00:10]  <jrb> we were idly discussing working on printing at the boston GNOME summit
[17:04:24]  <matthias> ok, I'm running out of steam. Need to spend some time with the kids now, anyway.
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