Matthias Clasen (mclasen_home)
Kristian Rietveld (kris)
Tim Janik (rambokid)
Jonathan Blandford (jrb)
Emanuelle Bassi (ebassi)

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 25 20:17:39 2005

Oct 25 20:17:39 -->	You are now talking on #gtk-devel
Oct 25 20:17:39 ---	Topic for #gtk-devel is http://live.gnome.org/GtkTeamPrintingBreakout
Oct 25 20:17:39 ---	Topic for #gtk-devel set by jrb at Wed Oct  5 22:15:45 2005
Oct 25 21:08:28 -->	jrb (~jrb@wlanconf-nat-pool-bos.redhat.com) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 21:22:53 -->	f_bank (~federico@201.137.114.202) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 21:24:13 -->	kris (~kris@nasi-goreng.babi-pangang.org) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 21:32:40 -->	ebassi (~ebassi@213-140-6-105.ip.fastwebnet.it) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 21:36:46 -->	carol (~carol@dupe.XCF.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 21:42:50 -->	gmt (~gentoo@host60-156.pool8254.interbusiness.it) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 21:45:47 -->	jkroon (~jacob@c83-249-217-43.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 21:52:31 -->	pbor (~paolo@host189-81.pool870.interbusiness.it) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 22:01:18 <mclasen_home>	is it time ?
Oct 25 22:01:21 <kris>	yes
Oct 25 22:01:58 <mclasen_home>	ok
Oct 25 22:02:31 <mclasen_home>	so, I have been a bit away from GTK+ for the last 2 weeks
Oct 25 22:03:09 <mclasen_home>	and thus not too current on any progress on 2.10 features 
Oct 25 22:03:20 <mclasen_home>	(I started wading through recent bugs today...)
Oct 25 22:03:42 <kris>	i am not too current on the progress either
Oct 25 22:03:50 <kris>	and i also started wading through treeview bugs again
Oct 25 22:04:04 <rambokid>	did anyone actually progress in the last 2 weeks? ;)
Oct 25 22:04:27 <mclasen_home>	well, we did some work on printing support at the summit
Oct 25 22:04:39 <kris>	ah, any updates on that?
Oct 25 22:04:44 <kris>	did something come out of it?
Oct 25 22:05:03 <mclasen_home>	I think we have some api proposals in libegg 
Oct 25 22:05:15 <mclasen_home>	jrb, what directory did that end up in ?
Oct 25 22:06:14 <jrb>	mclasen_home: printing, right?
Oct 25 22:06:16 <mclasen_home>	and we also had some mockups for a print dialog
Oct 25 22:07:09 <ebassi>	jrb: libegg/print
Oct 25 22:07:20 -->	gjc (~gjc@bl5-165-168.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #gtk-devel
Oct 25 22:07:26 <mclasen_home>	I think owen & jrb were able to demonstrate a gui-less print-to-pdf via cairo in the final session
Oct 25 22:08:05 <kris>	that's pretty sweet
Oct 25 22:08:25 <mclasen_home>	jrb: do you now if alex' mockups are online somewhere ?
Oct 25 22:10:17 <ebassi>	jrb: why the print dialog does not inherit from GtkDialog?
Oct 25 22:10:27 *	ebassi is wading through the APIs
Oct 25 22:10:56 <mclasen_home>	ebassi: the idea is still to allow using a native print dialog
Oct 25 22:10:58 <jrb>	mclasen_home: people keep asking from them
Oct 25 22:11:07 <jrb>	ebassi: I think that that's wrong, btw
Oct 25 22:12:11 <ebassi>	jrb: while I see the point of native dialog, I too do think that's the wrong approach
Oct 25 22:12:12 <mclasen_home>	ebassi: and gtk_dialog_run does not work for native win32 dialogs
Oct 25 22:12:50 <mclasen_home>	ebassi: there was a fear that some platforms do not offer a sufficient api to implement a print dialog ourselves
Oct 25 22:13:33 <ebassi>	that sucks...
Oct 25 22:14:50 <mclasen_home>	ebassi: did you do any updates to the recent-files code in libegg ?
Oct 25 22:15:58 <ebassi>	mclasen_home: I didn't commit them yet
Oct 25 22:16:18 <ebassi>	mclasen_home: I didn't have much time, this week
Oct 25 22:16:38 <ebassi>	I plan to upload them localtime ('tonight')
Oct 25 22:17:00 <mclasen_home>	nice. I'll make sure to take a look
Oct 25 22:17:36 <ebassi>	btw, can we please update libegg to use automake 1.7?
Oct 25 22:17:55 <mclasen_home>	what is it currently using ?
Oct 25 22:17:58 <ebassi>	1.4
Oct 25 22:18:00 <ebassi>	hardcoded
Oct 25 22:18:13 <jrb>	ebassi: I don't think anyone would complain much if you did that
Oct 25 22:18:40 <ebassi>	ops
Oct 25 22:18:49 <ebassi>	seems that bastien beated me to it
Oct 25 22:19:00 <jrb>	mclasen_home: the other conclusion we came to was there was such a variety of print dialogs on windows anyway, that producing our own wouldn't be too bad
Oct 25 22:19:20 <mclasen_home>	jrb: so owen basically agreed to a real dialog in the end ?
Oct 25 22:20:00 <jrb>	mclasen_home: he didn't want to hijack the API for OS/x
Oct 25 22:20:08 <jrb>	mclasen_home: but I feel pretty strongly that:
Oct 25 22:20:11 <jrb>	1) it has to be a dialog
Oct 25 22:20:31 <jrb>	2) The app developer shouldn't do the #ifdef WIN32 code themselves
Oct 25 22:20:55 <jrb>	so maybe we have to be creative in ugly if we try to do native dialogs.  But we shouldn't encode that in the API
Oct 25 22:21:45 *	mclasen_home thinks we need to write down a summary of the results of the printing session, as base for further work
Oct 25 22:22:15 <jrb>	yeah
Oct 25 22:23:22 <mclasen_home>	anyway, since we don't have much further 2.10 progress, maybe we can switch to 2.8 for a bit
Oct 25 22:23:48 <mclasen_home>	I plan to do a stable gtk release by mid of next week
Oct 25 22:24:09 <kris>	ok
Oct 25 22:24:22 <mclasen_home>	so if there are any serious bugs that need to be fixed in the stable branch, please fix them before next Wednesday
Oct 25 22:24:22 <kris>	then i will have enough time to test and commit a treeview scrolling fix
Oct 25 22:24:26 <kris>	(hurting quite a few apps)
Oct 25 22:24:35 <mclasen_home>	the bug or the fix ?
Oct 25 22:24:52 <kris>	the bug is.
Oct 25 22:25:56 <rambokid>	something to keep in mind is that some applications implement/derive their own GtkWindow/GtkDialog class. so the print dialog should be able to be put into any custom user supplied GtkWindow
Oct 25 22:26:41 <jrb>	rambokid: I'm somewhat dubious of designing for that use-case
Oct 25 22:26:57 <rambokid>	jrb: ?
Oct 25 22:27:27 <mclasen_home>	jrb: its fairly easy to make that work though, it doesn't really constrain the design much
Oct 25 22:27:43 <mclasen_home>	unless, of course, you use a native dialog...
Oct 25 22:28:03 <jrb>	mclasen_home: so long as we can do something like: dialog = gtk_print_dialog_new (); gtk_print_dialog_frobnate (dialog); gtk_dialog_run (dialog); I'm happy
Oct 25 22:29:00 <rambokid>	jrb: sure.  it's just that gtk_print_dialog_new() can do some add_print_dialog (gtk_window_new()) action, where add_print_dialog() woul dbe public API
Oct 25 22:29:28 <rambokid>	mclasen_home: which reminds me, i intend to make your g_thread_foreach() public. if you can make use of that, applications can as well.
Oct 25 22:30:11 <mclasen_home>	sounds fine to me
Oct 25 22:30:39 <jrb>	rambokid: but it has to be a GtkDialog
Oct 25 22:31:46 <rambokid>	jrb: that wouldn't work with user supplied GtkWindow type.
Oct 25 22:32:33 <mclasen_home>	jrb: you mean gtk_print_dialog_new() must return a GtkDialog ?
Oct 25 22:32:41 <rambokid>	jrb: in non-C languages, deriving your own widget types is the standard way to store data and change behaviour.
Oct 25 22:33:03 <rambokid>	for gtk_print_dialog_new() to return a GtkDialog is fine of course.
Oct 25 22:34:07 <jrb>	rambokid: yes.  But then it can't provide its own toplevel
Oct 25 22:34:22 <jrb>	anyway, I don't want to totally hijack this meeting, so perhaps we should move on to something else
Oct 25 22:35:35 <mclasen_home>	the one thing I have left is something federico brought up last week
Oct 25 22:35:39 <kris>	i have an api addition for GtkToolTips in mind
Oct 25 22:35:42 <kris>	maybe we can discuss that?
Oct 25 22:35:49 <mclasen_home>	sure
Oct 25 22:36:12 <kris>	i was thinking of adding:
Oct 25 22:36:27 <kris>	void gtk_tooltips_set_tip_callback (GtkTooltips *tooltips,
Oct 25 22:36:30 <kris>	GtkWidget *widget,
Oct 25 22:36:38 <kris>	GtkTooltipsGetFunc get_func,
Oct 25 22:36:40 <kris>	gpointer get_data,
Oct 25 22:36:47 <kris>	GtkTooltipsPositionFunc position_func,
Oct 25 22:36:51 <kris>	gpointer position_data);
Oct 25 22:36:52 <kris>	 
Oct 25 22:36:56 <kris>	you might ask, why?
Oct 25 22:37:04 <kris>	but using this we can have tooltips on treeview rows/cells/whatever
Oct 25 22:37:38 <mclasen_home>	how does this relate to  owens outline for a better tooltips api which he posted some time ago ?
Oct 25 22:37:40 <rambokid>	kris: i need the prototypes of your function pointers as well (and actually think this through). so can you please send it as an API proposal to gtk-devel-list as well?
Oct 25 22:37:49 <kris>	rambokid: will do
Oct 25 22:37:55 <kris>	mclasen_home: i never saw that post
Oct 25 22:38:19 <kris>	(and i did look for tooltips-api-rework bugs in bugzilla)
Oct 25 22:38:20 <mclasen_home>	I think that somebody was trying to implement that, btw, and got stuck on not being able to get feedback out of owen...
Oct 25 22:38:45 <rambokid>	mclasen_home: it doesn't at all yet. so cross checking kris' proposal with some notes/emails owen and i have on the topic and the relevant bugzilla bug report is part of the work in replying to this.
Oct 25 22:39:21 <mclasen_home>	taking this to gtk-devel sounds like a good idea
Oct 25 22:39:25 <kris>	i will send my thoughts to gtk-devel
Oct 25 22:39:32 <kris>	and hopefully we will get something moving from there
Oct 25 22:39:40 <mclasen_home>	good
Oct 25 22:40:15 <mclasen_home>	I think owens post was this: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2004-October/msg00120.html
Oct 25 22:41:19 <kris>	oh
Oct 25 22:41:23 <kris>	that is a detailed mail
Oct 25 22:41:50 <kris>	i will look at that first then (:
Oct 25 22:42:00 <mclasen_home>	ok
Oct 25 22:42:09 <jrb>	*sigh*
Oct 25 22:42:15 <jrb>	I never fulfilled that promise
Oct 25 22:42:36 <mclasen_home>	Do you promise better tooltips ?
Oct 25 22:42:57 <jrb>	I promised to write up TreeView requirements.  Or at least that's what owen said
Oct 25 22:43:05 <mclasen_home>	ah
Oct 25 22:43:10 <mclasen_home>	its not too late...
Oct 25 22:43:29 <mclasen_home>	ok, do we have more to discuss ?
Oct 25 22:44:06 <mclasen_home>	I had "small forgotten api additions" on my list, but since federico brought that up, maybe we should discuss that when he's here
Oct 25 22:45:06 <jrb>	he'll prolly show up in 30 minutes and apologize for being late. (-;
Oct 25 22:45:51 <mclasen_home>	lets close the meeting then, I need to look after dinner, and its getting late in Europe...
Oct 25 22:46:32 <mclasen_home>	see you later
Oct 25 22:46:37 <kris>	bye
Oct 25 22:47:00 <rambokid>	see you
Oct 25 22:47:25 <--	mclasen_home has quit (Leaving)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 25 22:48:27 2005